人物

专访挪威太极中心创始人Pamela Hiley

 

在2017年第5期的通讯里,我们给大家介绍了”被西方人喜欢的太极好处在哪里”,在一定意义上让大家重新认识了太极并为它的国际化而感到自豪。这次,我们有幸联系上了挪威太极中心的创立者帕梅拉·海雷(Pamela Hiley)。这位来自英国的太极大师将给我们详细介绍一下自己与太极结缘、学习太极的经历,以及在挪威经营太极中心的契机和感想。通过我们的采访大家将了解她心中的太极,太极的哲学与人生的深度认知。同时她会给大家建议如何才能学好太极,以及详细解说太极对我们都有哪些好处。

采访由程刚和卫茜共同完成。

 

  1. We all know Taiji is originally from China, and has spread to all over the world, many people have different understanding and view of Taiji, in some countries the idea of Taiji become localized. So, what is your understanding of Taiji apart from its physical pattern as Taijiquan? What can it do? What’s kind of philosophy it is? What can be related to our modern life?

我们都知道太极来自中国,并且在全世界广泛传播。大家对于太极有不同的理解,在一些国家太极这一概念也越来越本地化了。除了它的太极拳这一形式外,能否谈一下你对太极的理解?太极有什么用途?它包含什么样的哲理?它和我们的现代生活又有和联系?

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When I first met Taijiquan I felt it was something I had been longing for and indeed practicing in my heart all my life. My first teacher was Irish, Dr. John Kells and it was his gentle manner of transmitting this sophisticated form of movement and relaxation which fascinated me and brought me home to myself. The philosophy and way of seeing the balance of yin and yang gave my intellect a clear path to see the disparages of life and helped me understand how the body is an intimate mirror of this, it resonated deeply within me and gave me peace.  Taijiquan has always inspired me to take notice of my physical well being and has moved me into a state of accept and relaxation to who I am. Taijiquan helps to cultivate a better way of handling the daily challenges of life as one learns to transform the negative emotional circumstances which interrupt ones inner peace through transforming the physical tensions manifesting within the body.  Taijiquan is a great tool to take responsibility for ones actions and learn to balance them. One can then go on to cultivate a higher understanding of ones place in the greater community and society at large.

第一次接触太极拳的时候,我感觉到这就是我长期以来一直寻找、并在心里练习了无数次的东西。我的第一个太极拳老师是爱尔兰人John Kells医生。他用非常温和的方式来传播这一复杂的运动和放松形式,这让我非常着迷并回家仔细琢磨。寻找阴阳平衡这一哲理让我在面对生命中的不公时可以找到一条清晰的道路,让我明白自身是一把镜子,让我找到了内心的共鸣和平静。太极拳也常常给我启发,让我注意身体的幸福,使我进入一个接受自己是谁并放松下来的状态。在学着把影响内心平静的负面精神因素转化成表现在身体上的紧张感时,太极拳帮我养成了更好的处理生活中每天所遇到的挑战的方式。太极拳是一种对自己的行为负责并学着去平衡它们的工具,它可以使人对自己在一个团体甚至更大的社会中的位置有着更深层次的理解。

  1. Your center offers Taijiquan, qigong, and Kung fu practice, what are differences and similarity between them?

你的太极中心教有太极拳、气功和功夫的课程,请问它们的区别和相同点在哪里?

 

The teaching at Norsk Taiji Senter is mainly focusing on Taijquan which is a Martial Art. The qigong taught at the centre is a great compliment to taijiquan as we can express some of the negative patterns sitting in the body by using more spontaneous techniques such a stretching, slapping and shaking as well as a more detailed guidance through meditation techniqes and visualisations. We teach both Huagong and Baduanjin Qigong at NTS.  We are not teaching Kungfu anymore as my son Bjarte Hiley who was teaching Kungfu ealrier and who has lived in Wudangshan for 4 years has now moved to Holland.

挪威太极中心的教学主要集中在太极拳上,因为它是一门武术艺术。我们中心教的气功是对太极拳一个很好的补充,因为我们可以通过一些身体自发性的活动来把身体内的负面因素释放出来,比如伸展、拍打和摆动以及更细化的冥想方法和形象的指导等。我们同时教有Huagong(华功)和八段锦气功。目前我们不再开设功夫的课程,因为之前教功夫的是我儿子Bjarte Hiley,他之前在武当山上住了四年,现在搬去了荷兰。

 

  1. How was it like in the beginning? NTS has now over 6000 and more students in Norway, are there many young people learning Taiji Now?

太极中心刚创办的时候情况怎么样?现在太极中心在挪威有超过6000名学生,这里面年轻人学习太极的多吗?

Indeed we have had many thousands of students passing through the centre during the past 35 years. In the beginning it was a novelty and very new to the Norwegian people. In fact the classes would be full and there was a big turn over of students where people wanted to try it out. Over the years one sees who stays with the practice and who leaves and it can be that people come back again after many years away. The practice leaves a strong impression on people and I have many students who have been at the centre for over 20 years and are still practicing diligently. We have created a very inspiring milieu which has developed life long friendships through deep dialogue sharing life experiences with openness. People come from all walks of life from education and science to the arts and political professionals.  There is a good balance of both men and women in my classes and the age is form 20 to 80 with most students between 25 and 60. There are more and more younger educated people coming as they search for new solutions to their deeper motivations and lifes challenges.

在太极中心的训练给大家留下了深刻的印象,有些学员已经在中心训练20年了,依然在勤奋苦练。我们中心为大家创造了一个非常有启发性的环境,学员们通过深层次的对话,以开放的心态分享生活经历,发展成为终身的友谊。中心的学员来自各个领域,从教育到科学,从艺术到政治。我们中心男女平衡,学员年龄从20-80岁不等,其中大部分学员是在25-60岁。越来越多的年轻的、受过教育的人来加入我们中心,以寻找更深层次的动力及面对生活挑战的新解决办法。

4.   You are originally from Britain, what are differences and common between Taiji and western philosophy, from your point of view?

你来自英国,那么你认为太极和西方的哲学之间有什么相同和不同吗?

Well, I am a Celt from Wales and have found the nature based philosophy of dao very akin to the old celtic shamanic roots of my culture. In the broader western philosophical perspective there are ideas which have tended to remain in the mind only and have tended to neglect the full
embodiment of the human condition closely related to nature connecting the Body, Mind and Spirit.  I was blessed to meet  the late great Professor Arne Næss the Norwegian philosopher who was a very enlightened man who undertsood profoundly the tendencies of the human conditioning and that man is indeed one with nature.

是的,我是来自威尔士的凯尔特人。我发现,以自然为基础哲学的道教和我们文化中传统的凯尔特萨满教有些相似性。从更广的西方哲学观点来看,有些观点倾向于仅仅保留心理活动而选择忽视与自然密切相关的人类的完整体现,身体、精神和灵魂。我很荣幸可以见到挪威哲学家Arne Næss教授,他是一个非常开明的人,可以深刻理解人类生存条件的未来趋势,以及人是与自然融为一体的。

5.   When was the first time you get to know Taiji and the ancient philosophy? What impression did Taiji give you at that time?

你第一次知道太极和这种古老的哲学是什么时候?太极当时给你的印象如何?

In 1978 I was studying Human Movement Studies at University and did art as my second subject. I had a project on Black and this brought me into the science of black holes and the light therein and then digging deeper I came across the birth of yin and yang which I considered to be a science of movement. Taijiquan popped up then as a movement related to yin and yang and when I moved to London for Post Graduate studies I found a teacher and I have not stopped being curious since.

1987年我在大学里学习人类运动研究时,选择了艺术作为第二专业。我有一个名为黑色(Black)的项目,它引领我进入黑洞科学的领域,同时又激发我发现更深层次的阴阳概念—这在我看来也是一种运动科学。从那时起,太极拳开始成为一种流行,它是一项与阴和阳相关的运动。当我去伦敦读研究生时,我找到一个太极拳老师并一直对此项运动充满好奇。

6.   You came to Norway over 30 years ago, which was in 1983, what was the reason that make you think of bringing Taiji, Qigong and the ancient China’s philosophy to Norway?

从1983年到现在,你已经在挪威生活了30多年,是什么原因让你考虑将太极、气功和传统的中国哲学带到挪威来?

I was invited to teach Taiji and make a dance and music perfomance at the Per Gynt festival in Vinstra in 1983, so you could say it was Ibsen who brought me to Norway. Thorbjorn Enger won the Per Gynt prize that year so I somehow landed in Kardemommeby with Per Gynt and waffles. Was invited back again and again and decided to stay as there were more trees than people here and I loved the peace that nature brought.

1983年,我被邀请在挪威温斯特拉(Vinstra)的Per Gynt活动中教大家太极和舞蹈、音乐表演。所以,也可以说是易卜生把我带到了挪威。那年,Thorbjorn Enger赢得了Per Gynt奖,因此我得以在Kardemommeby和Per Gynt一起吃华夫饼。他们多次邀请我以后,我决定留在挪威,因为这里树木比人多,而且我也喜欢这里的自然带来的平静。

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7.   Norway is rich country, but how do you see ordinary Norwegian internal world?

挪威是一个很富裕的国家,你是如何看待挪威人的日常生活?

Norway is rich in natural resources as well as financial resources and my hope is that the ordinary man in the street will wake up to their opportunity to cultivate deep values for inner peace and consciousness aligning itself form within to harmonise and balance this. Living in Norway can put us to sleep as it is so comfortable and easy to live compared to many other coutries who are sufferring from poverty, war and conflicts. Our fortunes here in Norway will hopefully bring us into a good postion to create wiser decisions for the next generation to lead from within and not just be satisfied with material benefits. I believe the next generation will be searching for something more interesting than just shopping and entertainment as the nature spirits are so prevelant here and the awareness and questions arising from integration challenges will hopefuly keep us awake enough to change and transform these imporant and imminent issue humanity is facing right now concerning life itself. Norway is very well placed to create and make these changes, if Norway cannot do it, who can?

挪威是一个自然、经济资源丰富的国家。 我希望在大街上的普通人都可以唤醒自己,有机会培养内心平静和意识的深层价值观,寻求内在的协调和平衡。生活在挪威会让人昏昏欲睡,因为这里太舒服了,相对于其他正遭受着贫穷、战争和冲突的国家而言,在挪威生活非常轻松。生活在挪威的我们非常幸运,它可以有助于我们为下一代创造出更加睿智的想法,而不只是满足于资源带来的福利。我相信,下一代人会找到比购物和娱乐更加有意思的事情,因为大自然的精神在这里无处不在,源自整合挑战的意识和问题的出现会有希望使我们保持足够的清醒,从而对将人类生活本身正在面临的重要的、迫近的问题做出改变。挪威是一个可以创造这些改变的绝佳之地,如果在挪威都做不到,又有哪个国家可以?

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8.   How can Taiji can be a guide in our daily secular life? For example, Taiji give us balance and inner rich, but what help can I get from Tiaji if I am fighting in my work. From utilitarianism point of view, what benefit can I get?

太极如何在我们的日常生活中影响我们?比如,太极使我们得到平衡和内心的满足,但比如我每天在紧张工作,我又可以从太极中得到什么帮助?从实用的角度来看,太极会给我们哪些好处?

Taijiquan can help to transform negative emotions which can cultivate a greater awareness to self.  It can help teach us that our most vulnerable moments is what can strengthen us and give more insight for our lives and help us to make wiser decisions. It can be like a touch stone to help regain our balance in times of challenge.

太极拳可以帮你将负面的情绪转化培养为对自己更深层次的意识。它有助于让我们领悟到,我们最最珍贵的时刻是那些可以使我们变强、让我们对生活有更多的认识的时刻,它可以帮助我们做出更加聪明的决定。它就像一块试金石,帮助我们在面对挑战时找回平衡。

 

9.   What is the idea of balance in Taiji? What does it mean for a working class person?

太极的平衡是什么意思?对于工薪阶层而言,它意味着什么?

Balance is about realising when we have enough.

平衡是指要意识到自己已经得到了足够的东西(要知足。)

10.        In 2003 you established Peace Point Foundation, what is its goal?
What is the  foundation doing now? What is the definition of peace in this context?

 

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2003年你创立了平静点(?)基金会,它的目标是什么?基金会现在都在做些什么? 这里的平静具体定义是什么?

PPFoundation closed many years ago but I continue the work though various projects and dialogues and conferences. It is based on Peace from within.

这个基金会很多年前就已经关闭了,但我依然通过不同的项目、对话和会议在继续着。它的基础是来

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自己与内心的平静。

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11.        Can you give us an example of softness is stronger than hardness in real life?

可不可以举一个生活中以柔克刚的例子?

Any conflict is an opportunity to practice softness and being able to transform the conflict into open communciation and dialogue. If one is able to listen long enough to the other yet stand ones ground one can shape a strong evolution for great thought. Like a hard knife shaping the sculpture on the soft wood, beauty and form is created.

任何一个冲突都是练习温柔以待的机会,它可以让你将冲突转化为开放的交流和对话。如果一个人可以花足够长的时间站在对方的角度聆听对方,他就可以形成一种思维方式的巨大改变。这就像用一把坚韧的刀子在柔软的木头上进行雕刻,创造出美和各种形态一样。

12.        Can you talk about your experience when you were studying in Wudang mountain?

可以谈一下你当年在武当山的学习经历吗?

Beautiful nature and inspiring dedication and patience from the masters.  Dao Cha – Tea drinking was the best I’ve ever tasted.

那里风景很美,大师们的指导很耐心,很有启发性。道茶是我尝过的最好喝的茶。

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13.  In an early interview you said that Taiji should be a sport at school just like football and ski, can you tell us what can taiji help with teenagers?

在一篇早期的采访中,你说太极应该像足球和滑雪一样,也称为学校里的一门运动课,可否谈一下你觉得太极如何对青少年有所帮助吗?

It can help reduce stress and encourage a more satisfying method of understanding one another through touch and contact. Techniques such as in Pushing Hands and partner work it can be very playful and help develop empathy and understanding for the other. It can give concentration and confidence to teenagers to help them realise they already have many energies already with themselves to serve their family, friends and humanity and give them useful tools for their own career and well being.

它可以帮人减压,鼓励人们建立一个通过接触和交流互相理解的更加令人满意的方式。像推手这样的招式可以合作练习,这是非常有意思的,它可以帮助人们产生共鸣并互相理解。它可以人年轻人更加集中精力、有自信,可以帮他们意识到自己已经有很多的能量来为家庭、朋友和全人类服务,并为他们的职业发展和生活幸福提供有用的工具。

14.        What is your expectation for Taiji in the new year?

新的一年你对太极有什么期待?

That more people will practice and reap the benefits of  this gentle, strong movement form and gain insight from its profound stillness in movement and pure silent communication.

我希望有越来越多的人练习太极,从这项柔和又强壮的运动形式中体会到得它的益处,从该运动深入内在的静止和纯粹的安静交流中获得启发。

15.        Bjarte Hiley has also studied Taiji in China for several years, what brings him to Taiji? In China, we consider practice Taiji,Kongfu or Taoism to be hard and miserable, it takes very long time and you have to isolate yourself from outside world, how could a young boy manage that?

Bjarte Hiley也已经在中国学习太极好多年,是什么让他开始学习太极的呢?在中国,我们认为联系太极、功夫或者道教是非常困难和痛苦的,它要发费很长时间去掌握,你需要将自己与外界隔离,对年轻人而言如何能做到?

You should really ask Bjarte. He is a profound man and will share his knowledge and wisdom as time goes on.  My belief is we need the core of nature based philosophy and dao culture in society now and my hope is that the next generation can gain inspiration from dao and embodiment of it as I see Bjarte doing in his life. Hes an inspiration to young people and not afraid to confront and speak his truth.  We will need more and more honesty as time goes on.

Check him out here www.daomove.com

其实你更应该问Bjarte这个问题。他是个很渊博的人,随着时间的流逝他更愿意分享他的知识和智慧。我深信,我们如今的社会需要以自然为基础的哲理核心以及道家文化。我希望下一代人可以从道教中获得启发并将它体现出来,就像Bjarte正在生活中做的那样。他对年轻人而言会有很多启发,不要担心,去与他面对面交谈,就可以发现他的真理。随着时间的推移,我们需要更多的诚实。可以访问www.daomove.com 了解他。

16.        In China, however, people have different views toward Taiji.  Last year, there is Taiji master who actually was beaten down by a Mixed Marshall Arts fighter in 15 seconds. Some people describe Taiji as a farce, some accused tai chi practitioners online of using “many different ways to cheat” and “continuing to lie to people” about their abilities. What do you think of controversy?

但是,在中国, 人们对太极的观点是不一样的。去年,有一个太极大师被一名格斗狂人在15秒内打倒的新闻。一些人把太极描述为一种闹剧,一些人则在网上对太极的实战进行
抨击,比如“有许多作弊手段”、“一直在欺骗人”等。你如何看待这些争议?

I believe taking care of ones immune system is the highest form of defence we need, so health is the main focus here. Be kind and dont make any rash promises. Taijiquans higher goals are to transform ones mental state so one becomes a better person so one will not need to prove anything. I have survived living in Norway for 35 years teaching taijiquan, you could say that is quite an accomplishment but its not that impressive or it does not `show off` any obvious martial abilities. Its the long term impression that counts not short term. Penetrating the society slowly to change and transform from within takes time so please check your internal net not internet.

我认为管理好自己的免疫系统是我们需要的最主要的防御形式,这也是健康的重点。保持善良,不急于做出承诺。太极拳的更高目标是转化一个人的精神状态以成为更好的人,因此也就不再需要证明任何其他的事情。我在挪威教太极拳已经35年,你可以说这确实是一种成就,但它并不那么让人印象深刻,或者说它不是可以用来炫耀的显著的武术才能。它的影响力是长期产生的。它慢慢渗透到社会中去改变和转换,这些都需要时间来完成,所以请查看自己内在的网络,它不是互联网。

17.        Now questions from our reader.

现在是来自读者们的问题:

“I want to learn Taiji, how long does it take?”

“我想要学太极,它需要多长时间?”

A Life time.  Alas attending a 10 week course you will immediately feel the benefits of tuning into the qi field and aligning your posture to what is more natural, challenging and relaxing to you.

一生。参加一个为期10周的课程会让你立刻感到气带来的好处,让你适应哪种姿势对你而言最自然、最有挑战性也最放松。

“I want to learn Taiji, can it help me to defend myself?”

“我想学太极,它可以保护我自己吗?”

Ones immune system is the most important defence you need. Also in personal relations one learns to quantify and balance ones communication. What one gives out comes back so one learns to take responsability for ones actions.

你需要的最重要的防护是你的免疫系统。同样,对个人而言,可以学着平衡、量化你的交流能力。有付出就有回报,所以每个人应该学会对自己的行为负责。

“I want to learn Taiji, do I need preparation for that?”

“我想学太极,需要准备什么吗?”

Find a good teacher

找一个好老师。

“I want to learn Taiji, but it is difficult to calm down when practice, how can I do?”

“我想学太极,但在练习的时候很难平静下来,如何才可以做到?”

Practice more and relax your breath to tantien.

多加练习,放松,用丹田呼吸。

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